The following are selections, slightly edited, from the discussion at Bagatellen which followed my initial response to Adam Hill's piece: Adam:
ah, once again the argument that if someone doesn't like something, they just don't get it, though Jason G's argument is more passionately made than the typical old saw of this kind. To lump me in with the "oppressive" "conservatives" hilariously undermines his own point about reactionary reductions. (Perhaps Santa will bring you a text on critical thinking)
Jason:
Have you heard Brotzmann in person? How often?
Adam:
As with just about any improvisational musician, I have no doubt that seeing Brotzmann live is preferrable to his recordings. That said, he releases a large number of recordings under his name every year, and you can buy recordings of his dating from the late 60's to the present day. Is his sound not represented on these? Any of these? Even the live recordings? Even though most of his recordings are done outside of a studio? If not, how could we possibly evaluate them? And then, why release them? See what I'm getting at?
Look, I respect your passion for his music. And you just have to take my word for it when I tell you I'm not a reactionary conservative interested in oppressing any art form. I am interested in serious discussion, sans the personal smacks, which are understandable, but tend to get my lesser angel worked up.
Jason:
Though your piece definitely pushed some of my buttons, I had no intention of responding with personal flames, so I'll take back the “reactionary conservative” label (for now). I do have issues with what I see as the political implications of your piece, e.g., ignoring or diminishing the socio-political contexts from which the music arises and upon which it comments, conflating a genuinely radical counterculture with the capitalist-friendly hedonist-hippies of the Sixties, etc. (Have the authoritarian systems of Western free-market capitalism and various Euro-Asian totalitarian/fascist regimes been dismantled? Funny, I hadn't noticed.) But I decided to ask about seeing/hearing Brotz live instead for a particular reason. You didn't answer the question, but here's what I'm getting at:
I really don't think the “live/Memorex” issue is the same regarding Brotzmann [as] it is regarding “just about any” improv musician. Brotzmann's music suffers more than most if you only focus on the recordings for this reason: The intensity and complex texture of his sound is at the core of his music (as it is with, say, Borbetomagus), something which is simply impossible to be faithfully reproduced by the best recording played on the finest stereo. It's not a sound you merely hear with your ears, but a penetrating, enveloping sound that vibrates throughout one's body, from feet to crotch to stomach to the hairs on your chiny-chin-chin. You can crank up the stereo, but it doesn't really help. That's one, important, aspect, but it has other implications: it becomes misleading to evaluate the nature of his interaction (or “communication”) with fellow performers on a recording, where you can't hear what they're really interacting with -- not clusters of notes which are more or less dissonant, more or less dynamic, but thick sonic brushstrokes which no currently-known recording technology can accurately reproduce. And then there is the visual element, but I'll stop here. ***
So that's where I'm coming from, regarding Brotzmann in particular. [] I think anyone who discusses jazz & improv music(ian)s without hearing the music in person is missing a lot; with a musician like Brotzmann, s/he is missing almost everything [well, at least “a lot more”].
To make visual art analogies: you get more of the essence of a Mondrian painting in a reproduction than you do of the essence of Pollock painting in a reproduction; you get more of the essence of a Lubitsch film on home video than you do from a Brakhage film on home video. Brotzmann is more Pollock/Brakhage than Mondrian/Lubitsch. So...
You ask: “Is his sound not represented on these? Any of these? Even the live recordings? Even though most of his recordings are done outside of a studio?”
The answer is: No, his sound is not [fully] represented on record. (By asking the question you answer my question about hearing him live.) [But a more accurate reproduction of] his sound can be mentally reconstructed [while] listening only after having had the opportunity to experience the music in person. (I think of it as a sort of retroactive, subconscious “filling in the blanks” process. Don't ask me to elaborate.) [Some recordings are certainly better than others, and it's not as problematic with certain musicians as it is with others, but there's no way to know unless and until you have heard the musician performin person.]
“If not, how could we possibly evaluate them? And then, why release them?”
You can evaluate the records after having heard him live, preferably multiple times in different contexts. I know all the problematic implications of this, regarding access to live performances, etc, etc. I just can't avoid the conclusion that it's an absolute imperative if you're going to seriously, competently discuss improvised music in general, and Brotzmann's music in particular.
Why release them? Well, in a culture in which information is allowed to circulate only [about that which has been or has the potential to be commodified], it becomes unavoidable to have to put out records. For another thing, as a source of income, records are necessary, if insufficient per se, “in order to survive” [i.e., they may bring in a little money, but more importantly serves as a promotional tool for performances]. But my argument is not that the records are completely useless (see my “fill-in-the-blanks” explanation above).
Once Brotzmann's body gives out, the recordings will become the artefacts which best inform future generations, however imperfectly, about his music. Gary Peacock and others [Amiri Baraka] have commented on how inadequately Ayler's sound [his Sound] is captured in even the best recordings. [In a way that doesn't necessarily “make sense” [though cognitive scientists may be able to explain it], hearing Brotzmann live helps one “hear more” of this unreproducable element of Ayler's music when listening to the reproductions.]
[References to Brotzmann and the blues tradition, to the socio-political context/implications of his music, and to] the title of Mike Heffley's imaginary dissertation: "Mississippi Blues, Rhenish Folk, and the Unbearable Whiteness of Brötzmann."
Adam:
a thoughtful post. i'll have to take your word for it in regards to seeing him live, because no, i have not seen Brotzmann live, though I don't doubt it could be stirring, especially surrounded by other brave men. however, i just can't agree with you that he (or any other jazz artist) cannot be evaluated unless or until seen live. i do like your analogies, though i think all the plastic arts suffer in reproduction, and I'm not convinced that an audio art form suffers in the same way.
as i tried to make clear in my piece, it's really aesthetics. i do not like Brotzmann's excessive intensity, his howling squalls, his choice of visceral over intellectual. *** i hope i've made myself a wee bit clearer, so that you might see my objections to his playing are based on aesthetics that do not necessarily lend to a socio-political agenda.
[Jason's note: Part of my point in this discussion was to insist that one cannot so easily separate aesthetics from socio-political concerns. That kind of separation is symptomatic of Christian/Cartesian dualistic notions of mind/body, intellect/emotion, man/nature -- false or irrelevant notions which only serve as conceptual frameworks in support of those systems of oppression from which they arise.]
Derek:
One thing that I find laughable is the contention that Brötz can’t play the blues. That he isn’t a bluesman- that he’s a victim of the “unbearable whiteness” of that dissertation title. To my ears there’s a real sense of blues in his music. ***
Jason:
Oh, I absolutely agree that there's a lot of blues in Brotz's music. Maybe I misunderstood Heffley's point in his imaginary dissertation title, but I take the "unbearable whiteness" as a reference to post-WWII Germany. Brotz has said "I have the European blues or the after-war blues." In keeping with Cornel West's definition of the blues tradition, there is much dialogue, resistance, and hope in Brotzmann's music.
My point about live/records is more about a critic's responsibility: It's irresponsible for a critic (emphasis on critic) to conflate the aesthetics of a recording with the aesthetics of the music. Beyond the purely acoustic sound qualities, I include a lot of visual information in my definition of improvised music "aesthetics." For example, the ability to see a drummer decide when and where to hit a particular cymbal in a particular way, to watch a sax player decide when and where to start/stop blowing, provides a great deal of information about the shape, flow, and interactivity of a lot of improv music. After you've had the live experience, you hear the aesthetics of recorded music differently and I'd say more accurately. A critic who dismisses or ignores the live experience not only misses a great deal of this aesthetic information but also shows a lack of interest/understanding about the socio-political affinities of the music. Once again: We're talking about more than a mere commodity -- it's a living music. Maybe I'm adhering to an antiquated, pre-Internet/blog notion of "criticism" proper, but I think it's appropriate to hold critics to a higher standard for the writing they generate for public consumption.
Adam:
a few comments about aesthetics.*** positing that reproduction of say a Rothko painting is only a 'slightly worse version of the thing' and that a recording of say Giant Steps is a distortion of its essence, a cheap knock-off of sorts, is extremely unconvincing no matter how many technical and personal factors one cites. Besides the truly faulty analogy, it's trying to have it both ways. You know those recordings you've loved all these years? You shouldn't love them, at least not unless you've seen those artists live on dozens of occasions and have taken in every possible element of performance. C'mon! That kind of criteria is absurd, and to dress it up as a critic's responsibilty is tantamount to say nothing should be evaluated and criticized. And then to add the layer of socio-political connotations, well, what the hell, why even bother to trust the immediacy of music at all? Afterall, we're just kidding ourselves when we respond to it as it plays on our stereos.
Jason:
one last shot, Adam:
Ayler is dead. Brotzmann is not. That matters.
A serious critic will understand how this fact relates to the aesthetics and politics of creative/jazz/improvised/Great Black musics and enables a basic understanding of why musicians working in this tradition have something unique to offer in our culture of alienating commodification.
Serious criticism (contra hobbyist opinionating) about jazz/improv musics does not require the impossible (hearing dead people) but should have reasonable prerequisites (hearing live people in a live context -- at least once -- before discussing their music and its "relevance").
Brotzmann is very much alive. If you can make your way to Chicago on January 12, I'll gladly pay your admission to the Empty Bottle to hear him perform with the members of the DKV Trio.
Happy listening...